Comments on: What’s Wrong With the A’s http://www.red-hot-mama.com/2006/10/15/whats-wrong-with-the-as/ It sounds like porn, but it's all about baseball. Thu, 12 Jan 2012 03:38:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: KC2HMZ http://www.red-hot-mama.com/2006/10/15/whats-wrong-with-the-as/comment-page-1/#comment-4529 KC2HMZ Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:49:12 +0000 http://www.red-hot-mama.com/wp/?p=562#comment-4529 You have a point there. And a team playing in Chicago? If they were to cry poverty, it would be a de facto admission that the business side of the franchise (that handles sales and marketing) isn't doing its job. Maybe it's because the Cubs have been playing in The Windy City since before Cy Young himself first picked up a baseball and started studying the stitching. The A's were in Philly and K.C. before they moved to Oakland, and they have to compete with the Giants, Dodgers, Padres, and Angels for the loyalty of the fans in California. The Cubs have to compete with the White Sox, which wasn't hard to do until recently. No wonder they hired Sweet Lou. You have a point there. And a team playing in Chicago? If they were to cry poverty, it would be a de facto admission that the business side of the franchise (that handles sales and marketing) isn’t doing its job.

Maybe it’s because the Cubs have been playing in The Windy City since before Cy Young himself first picked up a baseball and started studying the stitching. The A’s were in Philly and K.C. before they moved to Oakland, and they have to compete with the Giants, Dodgers, Padres, and Angels for the loyalty of the fans in California. The Cubs have to compete with the White Sox, which wasn’t hard to do until recently. No wonder they hired Sweet Lou.

]]> By: Red Hot Mama http://www.red-hot-mama.com/2006/10/15/whats-wrong-with-the-as/comment-page-1/#comment-4524 Red Hot Mama Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:19:04 +0000 http://www.red-hot-mama.com/wp/?p=562#comment-4524 [quote]imagine what it would be like there if they were losing 90 games a year.[/quote] Maybe much worse, but maybe not. Consider the Cubs. [quote]imagine what it would be like there if they were losing 90 games a year.[/quote]

Maybe much worse, but maybe not. Consider the Cubs.

]]> By: KC2HMZ http://www.red-hot-mama.com/2006/10/15/whats-wrong-with-the-as/comment-page-1/#comment-4520 KC2HMZ Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:30:22 +0000 http://www.red-hot-mama.com/wp/?p=562#comment-4520 I made this point in ASBCR back around the beginning of the month: The economics of the game is what gives us teams like the A's and Braves who keep on winning division titles but never make it to the big dance. These guys build teams to win division titles. They don't make the moves that will make the difference between a division winner and a WS winner because of the economics of the game. Once a team that does not have deep pockets like the Yankees, Red Sox, and a handful of others, finds itself in the playoff hunt, the economics of the game require a conscious decision on the part of management as to whether or not to risk the long-term prospects of the franchise for a chance to win it all. If they make that trade to help improve their chances this year, their prospects of repeating with a similar performance next year and the year after that is diminished. They fall back in the standings, attendance goes in the toilet, and the franchise becomes another Kansas City Royals. So they tell us that winning in the playoffs is all luck, which is obvious bull because the only two teams that have made it to the World Series more than once during this decade, the Yankees and Cardinals, just happen to be the same two teams who have made it to the World Series more than any other team in their respective leagues. I applaud the fans in Oakland for not buying it - but if they have that many empty seats now, imagine what it would be like there if they were losing 90 games a year. Anyway, we Reds fans need to understand this, because at some point during the next few years, I expect that Wayne Krivsky and Bob Castellini will have to make the same decision, and I'm not going to be the least bit happy about it if they start spouting the "playoffs is all luck" baloney. HMZ I made this point in ASBCR back around the beginning of the month: The economics of the game is what gives us teams like the A’s and Braves who keep on winning division titles but never make it to the big dance. These guys build teams to win division titles. They don’t make the moves that will make the difference between a division winner and a WS winner because of the economics of the game. Once a team that does not have deep pockets like the Yankees, Red Sox, and a handful of others, finds itself in the playoff hunt, the economics of the game require a conscious decision on the part of management as to whether or not to risk the long-term prospects of the franchise for a chance to win it all.

If they make that trade to help improve their chances this year, their prospects of repeating with a similar performance next year and the year after that is diminished. They fall back in the standings, attendance goes in the toilet, and the franchise becomes another Kansas City Royals.

So they tell us that winning in the playoffs is all luck, which is obvious bull because the only two teams that have made it to the World Series more than once during this decade, the Yankees and Cardinals, just happen to be the same two teams who have made it to the World Series more than any other team in their respective leagues. I applaud the fans in Oakland for not buying it – but if they have that many empty seats now, imagine what it would be like there if they were losing 90 games a year.

Anyway, we Reds fans need to understand this, because at some point during the next few years, I expect that Wayne Krivsky and Bob Castellini
will have to make the same decision, and I’m not going to be the least bit happy about it if they start spouting the “playoffs is all luck” baloney.

HMZ

]]> By: Zeldink http://www.red-hot-mama.com/2006/10/15/whats-wrong-with-the-as/comment-page-1/#comment-4495 Zeldink Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:35:16 +0000 http://www.red-hot-mama.com/wp/?p=562#comment-4495 Sports teams as businesses are interesting and unique models. The hardcore fans prefer to see their team win, however, it seems unlikely that there are enough of these fans to fill the stadium for every game. So teams are left to do a delicate juggling act, trying to both win and entertain the masses. It's a lot harder to do both than just one, as evidenced by the A's and the Cubs. I think it's a reasonable to say that the Moneyball philosophy is a failure at creating a winning and entertaining team. Perhaps the best overall teams in baseball right now are the Cardinals, the Yankees, and the Red Sox. All three win consistently and sell tickets and loads of merchandise. I'm hopeful that Castellini can succeed at emulating them, although I grow a bit more worried with every Krivsky move. Sports teams as businesses are interesting and unique models.

The hardcore fans prefer to see their team win, however, it seems unlikely that there are enough of these fans to fill the stadium for every game.

So teams are left to do a delicate juggling act, trying to both win and entertain the masses. It’s a lot harder to do both than just one, as evidenced by the A’s and the Cubs.

I think it’s a reasonable to say that the Moneyball philosophy is a failure at creating a winning and entertaining team.

Perhaps the best overall teams in baseball right now are the Cardinals, the Yankees, and the Red Sox. All three win consistently and sell tickets and loads of merchandise.

I’m hopeful that Castellini can succeed at emulating them, although I grow a bit more worried with every Krivsky move.

]]> By: Red Hot Mama http://www.red-hot-mama.com/2006/10/15/whats-wrong-with-the-as/comment-page-1/#comment-4489 Red Hot Mama Mon, 16 Oct 2006 00:14:45 +0000 http://www.red-hot-mama.com/wp/?p=562#comment-4489 The biased media, the bad ballpark--so you guys admit that there ARE things that make a team appealing other than just winning. I feel like we've made a breakthrough here. You might like the Reds to be more like the A's and Braves, but the ownership would not. Like I said: baseball is an entertainment industry. It puts on a show while people spend money. The fact that the show is a winning one doesn't matter a whit if there's no one in the stands to spend money, like there isn't for the A's and Braves. The biased media, the bad ballpark–so you guys admit that there ARE things that make a team appealing other than just winning.

I feel like we’ve made a breakthrough here.

You might like the Reds to be more like the A’s and Braves, but the ownership would not. Like I said: baseball is an entertainment industry. It puts on a show while people spend money. The fact that the show is a winning one doesn’t matter a whit if there’s no one in the stands to spend money, like there isn’t for the A’s and Braves.

]]> By: JinAZ http://www.red-hot-mama.com/2006/10/15/whats-wrong-with-the-as/comment-page-1/#comment-4488 JinAZ Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:22:05 +0000 http://www.red-hot-mama.com/wp/?p=562#comment-4488 [i]And winning breeds chemistry, not the other way around.[/i] Any time you can have a ballclub with Frank Thomas, Milton Bradley, AND D'Angelo Jiminez, you better win or it's going to get nasty! :) -j [i]And winning breeds chemistry, not the other way around.[/i]

Any time you can have a ballclub with Frank Thomas, Milton Bradley, AND D’Angelo Jiminez, you better win or it’s going to get nasty! :) -j

]]> By: JinAZ http://www.red-hot-mama.com/2006/10/15/whats-wrong-with-the-as/comment-page-1/#comment-4487 JinAZ Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:19:47 +0000 http://www.red-hot-mama.com/wp/?p=562#comment-4487 Joel beat me to the punch, but I wanted to say that I'd be more than happy for the Reds to be quite a bit more like the A's. They're a smart team that has made it to the playoffs 5 times in the last 7 years. And I think that alone makes them interesting and fun. They've got a lot of attractive young pitching, as well as some terrific young offensive players. And they've been getting far more defensively-oriented over the past few years, which is fun to watch. Yes, they haven't done well in the playoffs. But neither did the Braves, who only won the world series once in 14 tries since 1992. And I'd be really happy to have the Reds be more like the Braves were in that span. -j Joel beat me to the punch, but I wanted to say that I’d be more than happy for the Reds to be quite a bit more like the A’s. They’re a smart team that has made it to the playoffs 5 times in the last 7 years. And I think that alone makes them interesting and fun. They’ve got a lot of attractive young pitching, as well as some terrific young offensive players. And they’ve been getting far more defensively-oriented over the past few years, which is fun to watch.

Yes, they haven’t done well in the playoffs. But neither did the Braves, who only won the world series once in 14 tries since 1992. And I’d be really happy to have the Reds be more like the Braves were in that span.
-j

]]> By: sweaver http://www.red-hot-mama.com/2006/10/15/whats-wrong-with-the-as/comment-page-1/#comment-4486 sweaver Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:18:12 +0000 http://www.red-hot-mama.com/wp/?p=562#comment-4486 Nick Swisher is worth the price of admission, to name one. The A's just have a terrible ballpark. The Reds have a nice park. And winning breeds chemistry, not the other way around. Nick Swisher is worth the price of admission, to name one. The A’s just have a terrible ballpark. The Reds have a nice park. And winning breeds chemistry, not the other way around.

]]> By: Joel http://www.red-hot-mama.com/2006/10/15/whats-wrong-with-the-as/comment-page-1/#comment-4485 Joel Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:03:50 +0000 http://www.red-hot-mama.com/wp/?p=562#comment-4485 I'm sure the A's noticed their lack of visitors during the season and playoffs. But they've always had trouble drawing fans in that market, which is why they've threatened to move in the past. Rumor has it that the Bay Area media puts considerably more attention onto the Giants than the A's, even when the A's are winning. Having never lived out there, I can't verify that either way though. [b]Now, why is that your favorite Red? Be honest: it's not because of his win-shares, is it? These are likable characters who also have the ability to put a charge into a game with a well-placed fantastic play.[/b] I'm sure the A's have plenty of likable characters who make fantastic plays. And you've always got the chance of a Milton Bradley meltdown. Can you put a price on that kind of entertainment value? Personally, I find having a winning team is fun, so if the Reds were like the A's, I'd love it. I'm a fan of the Reds, win or lose. So if they win, that just makes it that much better. I’m sure the A’s noticed their lack of visitors during the season and playoffs. But they’ve always had trouble drawing fans in that market, which is why they’ve threatened to move in the past. Rumor has it that the Bay Area media puts considerably more attention onto the Giants than the A’s, even when the A’s are winning. Having never lived out there, I can’t verify that either way though.

[b]Now, why is that your favorite Red? Be honest: it’s not because of his win-shares, is it? These are likable characters who also have the ability to put a charge into a game with a well-placed fantastic play.[/b]

I’m sure the A’s have plenty of likable characters who make fantastic plays. And you’ve always got the chance of a Milton Bradley meltdown. Can you put a price on that kind of entertainment value?

Personally, I find having a winning team is fun, so if the Reds were like the A’s, I’d love it. I’m a fan of the Reds, win or lose. So if they win, that just makes it that much better.

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